Curse

deadman_uk · Jun 06, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

I am not sure if this has been posted before but, I searched the forum and checked out the "Check this thread and use SEARCH before posting ANY new thread" and found nothing about this.

I have a high end computer and I want Guild Wars to look the best it can. When I look at my armor it looks great, it's very detailed and high quality, but when I view other people's armor they quality is rather poor and this frustrates me alot.

I know why this has been done, to stop the game lagging but what about people like me who have high end PC's? I don't want to look at thousands of people with blurry armor!. Why can't an option be added to the graphics menu allowing a user to set the detail of other players armor? If the game starts to lag, a user can simply lower the option or set it as it is now (default). Giving the player the option would please everyone!

This image has been saved in JPEG format at high quality with Adobe Photoshop. Look at the poor quality!

Here is an example of my paragon in an outpost (left) and explorable area (right). My friend took these pictures with the printscreen button, saved them as high quality JPEG's in Adobe Photoshop and sent them to me. No quality has been lost, they are basically bitmap files but smaller in filesize.

Is anyone with me?

NOTE: Please read all replies before posting, we think it is possible to have this done via your hard drive and not the server itself. Giving the player THE OPTION of high detailed textures in outposts is what I am suggesting, my suggestion is not to force it because the game would lag on slower computers.

Elena · Jun 06, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

guess it wouldn't hurt

Hyper.nl · Jun 06, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

/signed

Yeah, hires armor would be awesome. With an option to scale down to medium res for slower computers.

deadman_uk · Jun 07, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Is that all? Just 2 comments? Why do people buy high end PC's if they don't care about graphics?

Buzzer · Jun 07, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Agreed. There should be an option.

Operative 14 · Jun 07, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

A few months ago, my parents were nice enough to buy me a new computer. New Graphics card, New Dual core processor, 2 gigs of ram. I was excited to go into all of my games and see what difference it would make. Spent hours loading GW from the downloadable client, went to LA and....

Nothing changed.

It seems a shame to wasted the craftmanship and work that the devs have put into the individule armors in game, I wouldn't mind seeing it in its full glory.

Definately /signed

OxoZoso · Jun 08, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Perhaps only chars within viewable range... say 20 GW feet... would appear with hi res armor... those further out of view have low res... not a hardware geek, but that might be a solution. This is a subject that has always bugged... I mean, I want ppl to see my awesome armor lol

freekedoutfish · Jun 08, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

We're all well aware of this and yes its a bit of a pain. But does it effect the gameplay? Nope! Would it probably demand more power from your PC to be rendering dozens of armors in higher resolutions, with bit mapping and all that jaz? Yes!

You have to appreciate that this is an MMO, so it has to cut corners here and there to prevent lag. Asking the servers to move higher resolution textures around would cause alot more lag.

It would also demand a more powerfull machine. Something myself and other players cant afford, want or need.

Its is also a 2 year old game with a 2 year old engine, and upon its release it probably looked very impressive. I was and still am impressed at how most of the game looks. Its still one of the nicest looking games ive played and I personally think it looks alot better then games like WoW and its cartoonyness.

To add improved armor textures would require re-fitting alot of textures and probably some re-development of the gaming engine. Time which needs to spent elsewhere.

And it wouldnt just be a case of "well turn the settings down to stop the lagging", because those textures would still be holding more information then your seeing.

Dont get me wrong, it would be nice....

...but as I said, it doesnt effect gameplay and the rest of us survive with it. Just wait for GW2 when they have the opportunity to use a new updated engine and flashier graphics.

In the mean time, enjoy the game for its gameplay and re-playability. Something it has buckets of!

Aera · Jun 08, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Apparently my previous post got pwnt by the uber speed of Guru that occurs now and then, but here's what I have to say:

It only displays armour in low quality in towns and outposts. So outside, you can see everything on its best.

What's to sign about this?

pamelf · Jun 08, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by OxoZoso

Perhaps only chars within viewable range... say 20 GW feet... would appear with hi res armor... those further out of view have low res... not a hardware geek, but that might be a solution. This is a subject that has always bugged... I mean, I want ppl to see my awesome armor lol

/signed for this comment.

deadman_uk · Jun 08, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Would it probably demand more power from your PC to be rendering dozens of armors in higher resolutions, with bit mapping and all that jaz? Yes!

You have to appreciate that this is an MMO, so it has to cut corners here and there to prevent lag. Asking the servers to move higher resolution textures around would cause alot more lag.

It would also demand a more powerfull machine. Something myself and other players cant afford, want or need.

...but as I said, it doesnt effect gameplay and the rest of us survive with it.

I think you are being a bit selfish. OK you and some others may not or cant afford to upgrade their PC and that's fine but don't say it's a waste of time because of that and don't say people will survive without it, I like good graphics, please appreciate that. People like me have powerful PC's, we want better graphics and it wouldn't require much work. ANET have all the textures already made, not much work would have to be done to get this to work in my opinion.

I don't see how it can lag the server if people are given the choice of whether they want hi detailed texture or not. I have a dozen very powerful multiplayer games with far better graphics than Guild Wars, and those games don't lag. It's a 2 year old engine and maybe back then, the textures needed to be reduced, but technology has moved on, at least use the engine at it's full potential now!

Lonesamurai · Jun 08, 2007, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

I am not sure if this has been posted before but, I searched the forum and checked out the "Check this thread and use SEARCH before posting ANY new thread" and found nothing about this.

I have a high end computer and I want Guild Wars to look the best it can. When I look at my armor it looks great, it's very detailed and high quality, but when I view other people's armor they quality is rather poor and this frustrates me alot.

I know why this has been done, to stop the game lagging but what about people like me who have high end PC's? I don't want to look at thousands of people with blurry armor!. Why can't an option be added to the graphics menu allowing a user to set the detail of other players armor? If the game starts to lag, a user can simply lower the option or set it as it is now (default).

This image has been saved in JPEG format at high quality with Adobe Photoshop. Look at the poor quality!

Is anyone with me?

Ok, for one, that pic was taken in a town or Outpost and there is a very good reason why the armour is low res in the towns... because there are sometimes as many as 100 people in an outpost and the information being sent around would be crazy...

They have stated before why they have the armours in low res, its unlikely to change because it would cripple low end PC's, which the game is optimized to work on...

yes, it would be nice, but hell, my armour is high res in explorable areas, so I'm happy

deadman_uk · Jun 08, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

its unlikely to change because it would cripple low end PC's, which the game is optimized to work on...

Why doesn't anyone understand me when I say "Give people the option of increasing the detail of their armor"

By default the armor is left blurred in outposts and towns, but manually someone like me with a good PC can increase the detail if they wish. Why should that affect anyone with low end PCs?... It doesn't.

freekedoutfish · Jun 08, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

Why doesn't anyone understand me when I say "Give people the option of increasing the detail of their armor"

By default the armor is left blurred in outposts and towns, but manually someone like me with a good PC can increase the detail if they wish. Why should that affect anyone with low end PCs?... It doesn't.

Im not an game designer expert, but im going to make a speculation (I could be wrong).

Regardless of what graphics level you have your game set to, whether it be high or low, the models and textures still all contain the same amount of information.

The only thing which changes is whether that texture shows all that information, or hides parts of it (i.e it looks focuses or blured, or it shows the bump maps or not etc etc).

If you hide bits, then it makes it easier for your PC to render it. But all that information still exists within the texture and the model. Information which needs to be sent and recieve by the server.

At the minute lag issues are small for most players. The textures and models have been optomised to cut back on such issues, which is why their not perfect.

This being the reason why you see lesser detailed armors inside towns and outposts. To cut down on lag when surrouned by dozens of players.

If we increased the information for the textures and models of each player, its is adding alot more information to be sent and recieved for each player ingame, at that time.

Yes you can turn down your graphics level and your PC would be able to handle it from a stand-alone point of view. But from a server point of view, your adding alot more information to send and recieve.

It isnt a simple task, because it has knock on effects throughout the entire game. Consider how many people play GWs every hour. Imagine increasing the information stored for each of those characters 5x-10x-50x.

It would probably be the equilivant of what you see when a new campaign is released. Major lagging and rubber banding and erro7s for the first few weeks until it calms down. But it wouldnt calm down because its would be a perminant change.

Yes it would be nice, but its not a priority. If you play an MMO online game, you have to expect the graphics to be worse then a stand alone offline game, due to optomisation for the servers.

And it is a 2 year old game. Its like buying a first generation model mini and expecting BMW to upgrade it to a 2000 Mini Cooper. You bought the game knowing it was 2 years old so I would have expectations would have been well-grounded.

Maybe GW:EN will add new graphical touches here and there, but I wouldnt expect any major texture improvements.

I'd personally rather the graphics were a bit low-spec then have to endure lagging and rubber banding.

But dont get me wrong, I appreciate that the hardcore gamers with their expensive rigs want big, flashy graphics. But I think you'l have to wait until GW2.

NOTE: I could be completely wrong, and maybe better graphics wouldnt affect the entire game. Is so then woop! But if it was possible, im sure Anet would do it.

deadman_uk · Jun 08, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Im not an game designer expert, but im going to make a speculation (I could be wrong).

Regardless of what graphics level you have your game set to, whether it be high or low, the models and textures still all contain the same amount of information.

The only thing which changes is whether that texture shows all that information, or hides parts of it (i.e it looks focuses or blured, or it shows the bump maps or not etc etc).

If you hide bits, then it makes it easier for your PC to render it. But all that information still exists within the texture and the model. Information which needs to be sent and recieve by the server.

At the minute lag issues are small for most players. The textures and models have been optomised to cut back on such issues, which is why their not perfect.

This being the reason why you see lesser detailed armors inside towns and outposts. To cut down on lag when surrouned by dozens of players.

If we increased the information for the textures and models of each player, its is adding alot more information to be sent and recieved for each player ingame, at that time.

Yes you can turn down your graphics level and your PC would be able to handle it from a stand-alone point of view. But from a server point of view, your adding alot more information to send and recieve.

It isnt a simple task, because it has knock on effects throughout the entire game. Consider how many people play GWs every hour. Imagine increasing the information stored for each of those characters 5x-10x-50x.

It would probably be the equilivant of what you see when a new campaign is released. Major lagging and rubber banding and erro7s for the first few weeks until it calms down. But it wouldnt calm down because its would be a perminant change.

Yes it would be nice, but its not a priority. If you play an MMO online game, you have to expect the graphics to be worse then a stand alone offline game, due to optomisation for the servers.

And it is a 2 year old game. Its like buying a first generation model mini and expecting BMW to upgrade it to a 2000 Mini Cooper. You bought the game knowing it was 2 years old so I would have expectations would have been well-grounded.

Maybe GW:EN will add new graphical touches here and there, but I wouldnt expect any major texture improvements.

I'd personally rather the graphics were a bit low-spec then have to endure lagging and rubber banding.

But dont get me wrong, I appreciate that the hardcore gamers with their expensive rigs want big, flashy graphics. But I think you'l have to wait until GW2.

NOTE: I could be completely wrong, and maybe better graphics wouldnt affect the entire game. Is so then woop! But if it was possible, im sure Anet would do it.

I don't know if what you are saying is true and neither do you but it makes sense. ANET know what they can and can't do so lets hope they have read this and taken note if it is possible. I just wish ANET would reply to a few threads from time to time.

freekedoutfish · Jun 08, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

I don't know if what you are saying is true and neither do you but it makes sense. ANET know what they can and can't do so lets hope they have read this and taken note if it is possible. I just wish ANET would reply to a few threads from time to time.

Gaile replies to the odd thread every now and again, but their busy people and there are 100s of threads posted every day.

Check the forum section which follows the mods, to what threads they have replied to.

deadman_uk · Jun 08, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Gaile replies to the odd thread every now and again, but their busy people and there are 100s of threads posted every day.

Check the forum section which follows the mods, to what threads they have replied to.

I have looked at the memberlist for a Gaile and found nothing. Can you give me a link to these forums?

SpeedyKQ · Jun 08, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

If you hide bits, then it makes it easier for your PC to render it. But all that information still exists within the texture and the model. Information which needs to be sent and recieve by the server.

At the minute lag issues are small for most players. The textures and models have been optomised to cut back on such issues, which is why their not perfect.

This being the reason why you see lesser detailed armors inside towns and outposts. To cut down on lag when surrouned by dozens of players.

If we increased the information for the textures and models of each player, its is adding alot more information to be sent and recieved for each player ingame, at that time.

I strongly suspect that the server isn't describing textures and models. The server probably just tells you:

Warrior with Tyrian face #7 and maximum height, wearing all 15K Kurzick armor dyed blue, is dancing at coordinates XY, facing NE.

and then your client figures out how to draw that. That sort of system would use much less bandwidth than if the server knew how to to draw the 15K Kurzick armor, and described every coordinate of every polygon for every frame.

I would think the poorer armor in towns is just because most processors couldn't handle rendering 100 armors in high detail, and it has nothing to do with the servers. Not that I actually know.

bhavv · Jun 08, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

1) Adding an 'Ultra High' texture setting to enable armor on other players to be rendered in full detail should be added.

2) If you have a crap PC, dont complain about it and carry on using the 'low' setting. If a higher setting causes lag, rubberbanding, 0 FPS, you can turn it down!

3) If you have a PC fast enough to handle Ultra High textures like I and many others have, you can use it.

Thats all there is to it really. I dont see how anyone can argue against adding better quality armor textures.

And btw, texture info is all stored and ran from your HD. Enabling higher res textures would not affect the games bandwidth as they are loaded off your hard drive and not via the net connection. One simple way of understanding this is by going into options and changing the settings. If different settings required your internet connection, they would have to download everytime you moved the sliders, which is obviously not the case.

bamm bamm bamm · Jun 08, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I think its designed to accommodate graphics cards with low on-board memory, or on-board graphics chips using shared RAM. Upping the quality within a radius seems like a good idea, they already do it for props. I guess it really depends on whether the textures could all be loaded into memory at highest quality, or the feasibility of streaming them from the HDD, I'm not really sure. Not really a big deal for me, to be honest.

It's not a negative network effect issue as the textures are stored locally, and the decision to switch to the detailed texture would be delegated to the client. You have to understand that when you look at another person, their avatar hasn't been sent to you, just the information needed to reconstruct them with the assets stored in your dat file.